Resigned Member

Ther are further questions about the alleged great nephew of the former Prime Minister. Before taking on the post of paid researcher at the request of N.Farage(as one does) how did he earn his living. I also understand that he is unduly secretive about his private address and his personal and family life-if any.

Barboo

Do you mean this, Petrina?

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/ukip...iracies-3.html

quote
Dear Petrina,

Technically the link is actually great great great nephew, I am told, but the media tend to cut out the 2 greats - not me. In any case, in common parlance 'nephew' is used loosely to describe an indirect relation who is a descendant rather than one by direct descent - that is the point.
ends

and also:

quote
I have explained on numerous occasions that C-B had no children, but that my link to him is through the Bannerman side. . . .

HC-B inherited the Bannerman part of his name plus a fortune from a Bannerman relation, as his mother was a Bannerman, while he was born a Campbell. He was born in 1835, so is a distant relative.
ends

Aardvark

So David Campbell-Bannerman has no Campbell blood whatsoever?

Therein lies the problem. He is David Bannerman and the Campbell is an affectation taken from his great x 3 or 4 uncle who was a Campbell married to a Bannerman. There is no logical reason why he should have taken the Campbell surname as he is very indirect being from the female side by marriage. DCB is not a blood relation, in the last 5 generations or more, of Henry Campbell, later Henry Campbell-Bannerman, but of his wife.

In 5 generations you get 62 forebears, let alone all the brothers, sisters, cousins and their spouses and children that create your family. Any of us could find, I would hope, some distant relative who fared well and add their name for effect. Double barrelled names sound grand and imply former wealth and status, if not present wealth and status (clogs to clogs etc). Choosing to make your name double barrelled so you have the same name as a former Prime Minister, when you're involved in politics, is a bit naughty to say the least.

We can of course, by deed poll, change our name to whoever we want to be and many people do to sort out divorces or remove step-parent's unwanted names. This is an administrative convenience which few exploit. When I was a teenager I thought of adding Gilman before my singular surname just to get closer to the front of the alphabetical queue (it's not always easy being near the end when important things, like food, are being given out).

You have to be very insecure to change your name to make yourself sound more important than you really are. As time has worn on I have learnt to take greater pride in my name because, although there are a few more Paul Wessons about, each with their own successes and failures, in the UK political sphere, at least, I am unique and I take all the credit or blame under my own name, rather than that of a famous forebear.

David Bannerman could be a success in his own right, he doesn't have to borrow a famous name.

How many people know that, should you visit Winston Churchill's grave, you will find, in the same plot, Henmans and Churchills side by side? Tim Henman's family are the Woodstock Henmans, but has he ever mentioned his distant relative (closer than DCB's distant relative) in order to gain favour on the tennis circuit? Of course not, he is his own man.

Pity DCB, by his affectation, is not his own man.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

Petrina

Thanks for digging that out Barboo.It was a comprehensive reply from DCB and very instructive .

Frankly someone in the Press Office should have loooked into it before heralding him as the "great nephew " even if such a term can be used to cover a distant relation ,this is so distant as to be virtually worthless .

Geoffrey Collier

DCB can only be a nephew through the Campbell line. The uncle (Bannerman) from whom H C-B derived his fortune, would only have a Campbell as a nephew (the children of his sister) for the first generation. Subsequent generations would be cousins. Therefore, after five-plus generations he cannot lay claim to nephew-ship, unless the brother of H.C-B (Sir James Campbell) changed his name to Bannerman. Where is the evidence to support that is what happend? I fear that this is where Tony Bennetts explanation falls short.

The case against David Bannerman, is that he gained rapid promotion within UKIP, by
promoting his famous ancestor. His action was not done for status, kudos, snobbery, etc, but social and financial advantage. Those objectives were to be promoted by deception. The Hon Stephen Sobey Neville, when exposed as a fraud, disappeared. Now, there is a precedent for DCB to emulate.

Barboo

My guess is that the closest relationship of UKIP's David Bannerman to Henry Campbell-Bannerman (C-B) is likely to be that of cousin fourth removed. He has already stated in his reply to Petrina that his link to C-B is through the Bannerman side, which cuts out even the remote possibility mentioned by Geoffrey that had C-B's brother also changed his name to Bannerman, he could have been David's ancestor.

Since David's link to C-B is through the Bannerman side (C-B's mother being a Janet Bannerman who married C-B's father Sir James Campbell) he cannot be a descendant of C-B's of any kind, and cannot have any of CB's Campbell blood in him. What he may well be is a distant cousin of C-B's through having a common Bannerman ancestor, the closest of which would be C-B's grandfather Henry Bannerman. Henry's son was the uncle from whom C-B took the Bannerman name. C-B was born in 1836 so, taking a generation as roughly 30 years, that puts a likely four generations between him and David who was born in 1960, making David a cousin four times removed.

The problem with this is the puzzle of why C-B's uncle insisted on C-B taking on the Bannerman name. The obvious explanation is that, having no male Bannerman heir yet wanting the name to continue, he forced it onto his sister's son C-B. However, that would mean that that particular line of the Bannerman name must have died out with the uncle, making it impossible for David Bannerman to be a cousin fourth removed. In that case you would have to go back one generation further to find David and C-B's common Bannerman ancestor in C-B's great grand-father, making David a second cousin fourth removed - an even more distant relationship. The only alternative explanation is that the uncle had in fact had a male heir (either a son or a Bannerman nephew) who passed down the Bannerman name to David, but who for some reason was disinherited by C-B's uncle.

Anyone wanting to establish the exact relationship between David and C-B would need to look at this area of the Bannerman family tree, always bearing in mind that we only have David's word for it that he's related to C-B at all!

Petrina

"Dear Petrina,

Technically the link is actually great great great nephew,"

That`s what he stands by ,and that was after I had said that it appeared that he was "a more distant cousin on the Bannerman side" so he had his chance to wriggle and he decided to nail his colours to the mast .

BASILDON BOY

The registers of births for British subjects born in India are available online.

I have access to these records.

The birth marriage and death records for Scotland Wales and England to 2007 are also online.

I have access to these records.

Barboo

Yes? Do they shed any light?

BASILDON BOY

There are 5 possibles born overseas for the period 1959 to 1961

One was born at sea - one in an army camp - I think I know which one is the correct one.

If I had the money and time...

...anyone can order the birth certificate for just £7 online.