Raymond Finch

IWAR was not a common cause effort. It was a thinly disguised propaganda effort by the Tory party, funded by a Tory party donor and which rejected UKIP from taking any significant part in its proceedings.

Bob FM

The problem with IWAR, and I supported them, was that they were seen as a political alliance, rather than a referendum alliance. The political figures played to larger part in my view. And the reason we didn't get a Referendum is because Nick Clegg's Lib-Dems have no bottle, and the back bencher's in Labour were so afraid of losing their seats, because Yes to a referendum, would have resulted in a no vote, and a General Election. This self protectionism in British Politics is why so many refuse to vote. We in UKIP need to get the message out to the public, vote us in and you get your referendum, if it has to be an in or out one so be it. I believe given the EU's attitude to the Irish no vote, the public now want out. If this so called democratic alliance of Sovereign Nations is prepared to ignore a democratic vote, then the EU is a dead, and deserves to be buried.

progcon.org

Bob, I fully agree with UKIP's aims. However, objectively, how is the current strategy bringing us closer to EU withdrawal? What time horizon are you personally using or is it an open-ended 'one day'?

Do you have certain milestones that can be ticked off to show that progress is being made?

It is time to be a lot more clinical in measuring whether progress is being made.

Bob FM

My aim is for my group to improve year on year, we have achieved that in the last two years. As for EU withdrawal if UKIP can gain a few GE seats then pressure can be put on Cameron to give the referendum he promised. This has now got to be the Politics of embarrassment. We have got to keep reminding the 'leading' parties of their performance over Lisbon to date. The public are listening, 60% and growing now say out. 95% if the Express are right.

Christina

Seems I don't need to catch up then.

progcon.org

rotfl. :-)

Christina

:-)

I must admit, I don't foresee UKIP achieving anything on their own and if they could join forces with the Lib Dems and Liberty (Ireland) in a push for a referendum, it may work.

mrabody

I agree with you completely Bob with your goal of improving year on year. That is what the party needs to be working towards as a whole.


Progcon - please don't be offended, but it appears that you are looking for a magic bullet that will get us out of the EU quickly. I can't see it happening. The leadership of the three establishment parties is fully in favour of remaining in the EU.

What if your New Referendum party succeeded in persuading the three establishment parties to hold an in or out referendum? Presumably as soon as the referendum campaign began the Party would collapse (you've called for a shared leadership by both a Eurosceptic and a Europhile). Therefore, who would take up and run the campaign for the Out side? It would be the three main parties campaigning to remain in (plus the SNP and other various regional parties) with only a few Tory MPs campaigning to remain out. I'm not convinced that a plurality of voters would vote to leave the EU just yet, but even if the Out side won, do you really think that the government of the day or indeed any of the other opposition parties would actually listen to the vote in that instance? They would simply ignore it. In which case we would then be in a worse position than we are now. Just as stuck in the EU but with no vehicle to uphold the independence flag.

I'm sorry, but there is only way out at this time. UKIP needs to become strong enough to win seats on local and county councils, and in Westminister. Only when it starts costing the three establishment parties seats and threatens to cost them the opportunity to form government may we see a change in attitude.

Christina

At the moment things look hopeless, but with a future Tory Government, any pressure from parties / groups calling for a referendum could have more effect, as many in the Tory Party want a referendum too. We should think about how to apply pressure to a changed Government NOW and take action when it has happened.

progcon.org

"Progcon - please don't be offended, but it appears that you are looking for a magic bullet that will get us out of the EU quickly."

Not offended at all. Straight talking is always welcome.

However what I am trying to get you guys doing is not saying what you would like to happen, but ways of measuring if actual progress is being made towards the goal of EU withdrawal.

Questions:
#1 If every single British MEP belonged to UKIP would it make the slighest difference to the parties in Westminster considering that Britain's membership of the EU will be decided there?

I suggest it will not make any difference at all. I agree that having elected officials in some capacity offers some degree of respectability, but does it get us any closer to getting out? No.

"I'm sorry, but there is only way out at this time. UKIP needs to become strong enough to win seats on local and county councils, and in Westminister. Only when it starts costing the three establishment parties seats and threatens to cost them the opportunity to form government may we see a change in attitude."

No need to apologise as I 100% agree with you. It is the *only* way to achieve the goal of EU withdrawal. We are in agreement.

Unfortunately, UKIP is going backwards not forwards in terms of getting people elected into the HoC (Bob Spink was a welcome but one-off bonus). For me, every single penny spent on getting people elected as an MEP, is another penny wasted.

We both agree on the place UKIP needs to get elected to make a difference, and UKIP does not have the funds to fight on two fronts, and no progress has been made in finding new members or new donors to change this.

With just 15,000 members and no new big donors since Nigel took office almost 2 years ago, UKIP is currently incapable of getting people elected into the establishments we both agree are the only place it can achieve its goals.

UKIP has ceased to exist as a vehicle to get MP's elected and has no solution to turn this around. You can have all the policies in the world, but just who is listening?

If next year's euro elections do not turn out as the party hopes, and even the number of MEP's falls, what will UKIP have left to give?

Remember that UKIP failure will be used by the euphiles as a proxy for failure of the desire to leave the EU. A failing UKIP will damage the cause, which is why I am suggesting looking at different strategies instead of waiting for what now, imho, is going to be a ukip car-crash next year.