News: Annabelle Fuller resigns from UKIP

C_steam · 06-08-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas denny

The party might be legally/technically responsible under DPA, (perhaps? not yet proven!), - but is certainly not morally so as there was no intent to do harm to West by the party.

Which is where we differ, I'm afraid. I think if this goes to court (after any DPA case) UKIP will have a VERY hard time showing that there was no intent to do harm. Certainly there can be no doubt that the video was posted to be harmful, the get-out may be whther the party can show fuller (if it was she) was acting alone BUT then you get the issues of a) why UKIP had no systems in place to prevent such an act and (more importantly IMHO) b) given all the things in the public domain regarding JW's previous actions, why didn't the party discipline him? It may well look like that the party decided to take action through an employee as retribution. Or anyway, that'll be where the lawyers are coming from, I'd suspect.

douglas denny · 06-08-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C_steam

Which is where we differ, I'm afraid. I think if this goes to court (after any DPA case) UKIP will have a VERY hard time showing that there was no intent to do harm. Certainly there can be no doubt that the video was posted to be harmful, the get-out may be whther the party can show fuller (if it was she) was acting alone BUT then you get the issues of a) why UKIP had no systems in place to prevent such an act and (more importantly IMHO) b) given all the things in the public domain regarding JW's previous actions, why didn't the party discipline him? It may well look like that the party decided to take action through an employee as retribution. Or anyway, that'll be where the lawyers are coming from, I'd suspect.

Surely that is the very point of the whole business that you have highlighted yourself Steamer:- courts require evidence and proof. That there was intent to do harm is unquestioned; but exactly who was it with the intent? AF? - or some rogue taxi driver or other third party? And can it be proven? (Note: I make no judgements here incidentally - just pose the question)

I do not see how the party as a corporate body can be implicated other than as the custodian of its own material which has escaped into the public domain.

DED.
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Geoffrey Collier · 06-08-2008, 02:43 PM

Douglas Denny: You must make up your own mind in these matters, but you are a member of the NEC, which at present, so we are told is being investigated about the John West/Annebelle affair. Despite your own opinion as to the possibility for litigation, is it wise to place your opinions on a public forum, concerniing a possible legal dispute in which you could be one of the litigants? This could harm the case for one, or both, of the sides in dispute.

If you are going to, 'go public' tell us what you think of the UKIP/Ganley meeting, which is taking place next month.

douglas denny · 06-08-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

Douglas Denny: You must make up your own mind in these matters, but you are a member of the NEC, which at present, so we are told is being investigated about the John West/Annebelle affair. Despite your own opinion as to the possibility for litigation, is it wise to place your opinions on a public forum, concerniing a possible legal dispute in which you could be one of the litigants? This could harm the case for one, or both, of the sides in dispute.

If you are going to, 'go public' tell us what you think of the UKIP/Ganley meeting, which is taking place next month.

Thank you for your concern Geoffrey; and you are quite right.

You will note however, I have largely posed questions only about the substantive issues for others to answer.

The only opinion I have proferred is that I think it is a storm in a teacup - which I do; and have explained why.

DED.

douglas denny · 06-08-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

quote douglas denny
Thank you for your concern Geoffrey....

I should also point out I have not been informed by anyone officially that there are any legal proceedings against the party, or even investigations, so it not sub-judice as yet, as far as I know. The last communication to me was to indicate the Party Chairman was not of a mind to take the issue further about AF. From my point of view everything thus far is hearsay and discussion. I am free to express opinons but have been careful to not make any substantive opinion about the issues nontheless.

DED.
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C_steam · 06-08-2008, 10:12 PM

Douglas - promise me one thing. IF this thing dies down, (and even perhaps if it doesn't) I'll bet another tenner into your branch funds that Fuller gets employed by UKIp or through UKIP/UKIP connections before the year is out.

Then what would you say about your party?

douglas denny · 06-08-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C_steam

Douglas - promise me one thing. IF this thing dies down, (and even perhaps if it doesn't) I'll bet another tenner into your branch funds that Fuller gets employed by UKIp or through UKIP/UKIP connections before the year is out.

Then what would you say about your party?

I'd say I wasn't surprised.

It happens everywhere: all the time.

DED.
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Aardvark · 07-08-2008, 06:09 AM

No separation of the 'is' and 'ought' then?

Geoffrey Collier · 07-08-2008, 09:16 AM

Douglas D: I am not sure that you, as a NEC member, are merely precluded from discussing matters which are sub judice. Will it be in order for other members of the NEC to comment on the posting by Clive Page? Did the NEC agree to Christopher Gill going on holiday, and also agreed that a replacement for him was not necessary. If true, that will be in the minutes.

Also, I note that the election material gives no indication as to the printer or publisher. Presumably, the latter will be UKIP, but who was the printer? How many quotes were received from other printing companies. Again, this would have been decided by the NEC, and should be recorded in the minutes. By the way, have you heard how Caesar's wife is these days; I do hope she's keeping well?

Geoffrey Collier · 07-08-2008, 09:17 AM

Douglas D: I am not sure that you, as a NEC member, are merely precluded from discussing matters which are sub judice. Will it be in order for other members of the NEC to comment on the posting by Clive Page? Did the NEC agree to Christopher Gill going on holiday, and also agreed that a replacement for him was not necessary. If true, that will be in the minutes.

Also, I note that the election material gives no indication as to the printer or publisher. Presumably, the latter will be UKIP, but who was the printer? How many quotes were received from other printing companies. Again, this would have been decided by the NEC, and should be recorded in the minutes. By the way, have you heard how Caesar's wife is these days; I do hope she's keeping well?

06-08-2008, 10:12 PM	#146 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,786	Douglas - promise me one thing. IF this thing dies down, (and even perhaps if it doesn't) I'll bet another tenner into your branch funds that Fuller gets employed by UKIp or through UKIP/UKIP connections before the year is out. Then what would you say about your party? __________________ -------------------------------------------------- Users on ignore list: None. I've got to have people to laugh at. Cowardly Posters* list: BobFM, Bellatrix.*People who post personal insults then refuse to reply .

07-08-2008, 06:09 AM	#148 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,973	No separation of the 'is' and 'ought' then? __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

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06-08-2008, 02:43 PM	#143 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,158	Douglas Denny: You must make up your own mind in these matters, but you are a member of the NEC, which at present, so we are told is being investigated about the John West/Annebelle affair. Despite your own opinion as to the possibility for litigation, is it wise to place your opinions on a public forum, concerniing a possible legal dispute in which you could be one of the litigants? This could harm the case for one, or both, of the sides in dispute. If you are going to, 'go public' tell us what you think of the UKIP/Ganley meeting, which is taking place next month.

07-08-2008, 09:16 AM	#149 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,158	Douglas D: I am not sure that you, as a NEC member, are merely precluded from discussing matters which are sub judice. Will it be in order for other members of the NEC to comment on the posting by Clive Page? Did the NEC agree to Christopher Gill going on holiday, and also agreed that a replacement for him was not necessary. If true, that will be in the minutes. Also, I note that the election material gives no indication as to the printer or publisher. Presumably, the latter will be UKIP, but who was the printer? How many quotes were received from other printing companies. Again, this would have been decided by the NEC, and should be recorded in the minutes. By the way, have you heard how Caesar's wife is these days; I do hope she's keeping well?

07-08-2008, 09:17 AM	#150 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,158	Douglas D: I am not sure that you, as a NEC member, are merely precluded from discussing matters which are sub judice. Will it be in order for other members of the NEC to comment on the posting by Clive Page? Did the NEC agree to Christopher Gill going on holiday, and also agreed that a replacement for him was not necessary. If true, that will be in the minutes. Also, I note that the election material gives no indication as to the printer or publisher. Presumably, the latter will be UKIP, but who was the printer? How many quotes were received from other printing companies. Again, this would have been decided by the NEC, and should be recorded in the minutes. By the way, have you heard how Caesar's wife is these days; I do hope she's keeping well?