The Monarchy & UKIP

McUkip man · 08-07-2008, 08:54 PM

The Queen gave her assent to the Lisbon Treaty despite the fact it was achieved by the blatent use of deception and dictatorship. She has never lifted a finger to help our loss of soverignty democracy and freedom.

Is it time UKIP considered reconsidering its policy of blind unquestioning loyalty to this institution that has done nothing to help us?

Mikeuk · 08-07-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McUkip man

The Queen gave her assent to the Lisbon Treaty despite the fact it was achieved by the blatent use of deception and dictatorship. She has never lifted a finger to help our loss of soverignty democracy and freedom.

Is it time UKIP considered reconsidering its policy of blind unquestioning loyalty to this institution that has done nothing to help us?

The Vindsors have betrayed this country.

Get rid of them!

harryaldridge · 09-07-2008, 08:48 AM

The Queen does not actually sign Acts of Parliament, that power is delegated.

Your comment is really about the fact that the monarch is not standing up to Parliament against some fundamental issues. To do so would create a constitutional crisis. The problem is that under our system of government there is no supreme constitution which binds Parliament or the Executive.

All I would add is that this issue has been discusseed at length in the Constitutional Affairs policy group and I would be patient and await the final paper. The issue is far more involved than one might think and there is no easy fix.

Mikeuk · 09-07-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryaldridge

The Queen does not actually sign Acts of Parliament, that power is delegated.

Your comment is really about the fact that the monarch is not standing up to Parliament against some fundamental issues. To do so would create a constitutional crisis. The problem is that under our system of government there is no supreme constitution which binds Parliament or the Executive.

All I would add is that this issue has been discusseed at length in the Constitutional Affairs policy group and I would be patient and await the final paper. The issue is far more involved than one might think and there is no easy fix.

If she isn't prepared to stand up for the rights of the people there is no point in keeping her and her unappealing brood.

Rosie · 09-07-2008, 09:19 AM

Well said Mikeuk.

gremlin in the works · 09-07-2008, 10:52 AM

i agree Mikeuk

Kevin Adamson · 09-07-2008, 11:28 AM

No Never.
Harrys got it in perspective

g hall · 09-07-2008, 12:55 PM

We need a new constitution without any hereditary OR religious influence indeed the original American Constitution would make a valid starting point

McUkip man · 09-07-2008, 12:56 PM

Harryalderage makes the point it would create constitutional chaos.

We are already in constitutional chaos as Gordon Brown openly used deception at the election and now he is using dictatorship. The power the PM uses is the property of the people. If I rent a car I canot sell it or any part of it while it is in my possetion. If I rent a house I cannot put it up for sale and sell it. That is exactly what Gorden Brown is doing and the Queen can see it for what it is as clearly as every one else. Why should she be exempt from being as responsable for what she does about it unlike us and every other citizen.

I know the queen does not have the power to be the solution. But she could use what power she does have to help the cause. She could have refused to give her assent using the same sence of desency that people use in their every day lives.

Why should we support her position and lifestyle when she is doing nothing to earn it as she does not support our lifestyle (using what influnce and power she does have) of being soverign democratic(government by the people) and free.

McUkip man · 09-07-2008, 01:07 PM

g hall is right I think the American constitution is the right place to start.

If you read the decleration of independence you will find alot of paralels between the behavour of the then King and the EU.

When I think of how we should be governed I think of the answer a religous leader gave in the 19th centuary America "Teach people correct principles and people will govern themselves" The government should only deal with keeping the basics right and in order.

View Poll Results: Should UKIP withdraw its support of the monarchy
Never under any curcumstances	21	48.84%
Only if warrented but so far it is not	10	23.26%
We should consider it in light of ratifying the treaty	5	11.63%
Yes withdraw support right now	7	16.28%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

08-07-2008, 08:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
McUkip man Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Shetland Posts: 360	The Monarchy & UKIP The Queen gave her assent to the Lisbon Treaty despite the fact it was achieved by the blatent use of deception and dictatorship. She has never lifted a finger to help our loss of soverignty democracy and freedom. Is it time UKIP considered reconsidering its policy of blind unquestioning loyalty to this institution that has done nothing to help us? __________________ Born a free patriot die a free rebel

09-07-2008, 08:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
harryaldridge Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Sussex Posts: 1,912	The Queen does not actually sign Acts of Parliament, that power is delegated. Your comment is really about the fact that the monarch is not standing up to Parliament against some fundamental issues. To do so would create a constitutional crisis. The problem is that under our system of government there is no supreme constitution which binds Parliament or the Executive. All I would add is that this issue has been discusseed at length in the Constitutional Affairs policy group and I would be patient and await the final paper. The issue is far more involved than one might think and there is no easy fix. __________________ http://vindicovindico.blogspot.com Last edited by harryaldridge; 09-07-2008 at 08:50 AM.

09-07-2008, 10:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
gremlin in the works Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 89	i agree Mikeuk __________________ William Pitt the younger “Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it; and this I know, my lords, that where laws end, tyranny begins”

09-07-2008, 12:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erehwon Posts: 5,233	We need a new constitution without any hereditary OR religious influence indeed the original American Constitution would make a valid starting point __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

09-07-2008, 09:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
Rosie Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Midlands Posts: 124	Well said Mikeuk.

09-07-2008, 11:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
Kevin Adamson Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Surrey Posts: 864 Party: UKIP	No Never. Harrys got it in perspective

09-07-2008, 12:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
McUkip man Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Shetland Posts: 360	Harryalderage makes the point it would create constitutional chaos. We are already in constitutional chaos as Gordon Brown openly used deception at the election and now he is using dictatorship. The power the PM uses is the property of the people. If I rent a car I canot sell it or any part of it while it is in my possetion. If I rent a house I cannot put it up for sale and sell it. That is exactly what Gorden Brown is doing and the Queen can see it for what it is as clearly as every one else. Why should she be exempt from being as responsable for what she does about it unlike us and every other citizen. I know the queen does not have the power to be the solution. But she could use what power she does have to help the cause. She could have refused to give her assent using the same sence of desency that people use in their every day lives. Why should we support her position and lifestyle when she is doing nothing to earn it as she does not support our lifestyle (using what influnce and power she does have) of being soverign democratic(government by the people) and free. __________________ Born a free patriot die a free rebel

09-07-2008, 01:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
McUkip man Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Shetland Posts: 360	g hall is right I think the American constitution is the right place to start. If you read the decleration of independence you will find alot of paralels between the behavour of the then King and the EU. When I think of how we should be governed I think of the answer a religous leader gave in the 19th centuary America "Teach people correct principles and people will govern themselves" The government should only deal with keeping the basics right and in order. __________________ Born a free patriot die a free rebel

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