New list of UKIP councillors

Michael Heaver · 23-11-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANGLO-STAFFS

I may be wrong but I do not think there is any official structured councillor/candidate support.
There hadn't used to be even when the membership was higher.

When I was searching for the UKIP district councillors I checked a Cllr Mike Baker. In the summer much was made of him defecting to UKIP from the Independents on North Norfolk District Council. I did not include him in the list as he is now/still listed as Ind' on NNDC councillors list.

Does this mean that he didn't defect?
Did defect but defected back again?
Is a member of UKIP but finds it a political liability to use the label?
Just finds it more comfortable not to use the UKIP name?
Non of the above?

Normally, to be officially registered as a Councillor supporting a certain Party there has to be two or three of you on the Council to form the "group", I think.

tamashi · 23-11-2007, 10:02 PM

The local government act identifies four possible labels for Councillors; these are Labour, Liberal Democrat, Conservative and Independent/Minor Party. All Parties other than the big three go in the "Independent/Minor Party" Group, often shortened to "Independent"

If there are two or more individual Councils who want to band together they can request they be treated as a Group in their own right, "Ratepayer" or "Hospital Alliance" being two examples. These labels cannot appear on ballot papers as they are not registered political parties but they can be recognised as groups within an individual council. According to Steve Allison's Blogg there was a period on Hartlepool Council when Independents, Tories and UKIP sat together as an "Administrative Group" this gave then sufficient numbers to get a couple of Committee Chairmanships, which up till then had all been Labour. If the Lib-Dems had been willing to join the Admin Group then Labour would have lost control of Hartlepool Council. However, the Lib-Dems were not willing to do so and propped up the Labour Group enabling them to keep control as the biggest single party rather than the Majority Party

Unfortunately there are many disadvantages in being a small group, the main one being in the allocation of Committee Seats which is done on a political balance basis. If a Council was made up of 30 Tories, 15 Labour, 15 Lib Dems and 10 Independents then a Committee of 10 would be allocated 5 Tories, 2 Labour, 2 Lib Dems and 1 Independent. If two of the independents were actually UKIP then they would be entitled to attend an "Independent Group Meeting" to agree who from the 10 possible would take the seat. This is where all the horse trading goes on. However if two "independents" split off to be the UKIP Group then the Seats would be still be allocated 5 Tories, 2 Labour, 2 Lib Dems and 1 Independent but the two UKIP Councillors would no longer be in the horse trade. To keep the Council Politically balanced would require every 30/70 Seats to be Tory, 15/70 each to be Lib Dem and Labour, 8/70 to be Independent and 2/70 to be UKIP/15. This means any committee with more than 10 seats would have an Independent by right but it would need 35 seats before UKIP got a place automatically. Every 35th seat would still need to be UKIP but these seats would allocated by the big groups on a "take it or leave it" basis.

Before Independents started forming their own groups on Councils this is how all none big 3 Party seats were allocated. Only by playing the numbers Game can none lib/lab/con councillors hope to get seats on any committees with any influence.

Anthony Butcher · 23-11-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prober

Presumably there is a UKIP Councillors' Association which provides cross support etc .

I think that you know that there isn't. UKIP doesn't even know who their councillors are.

It was one of the ideas I presented to the NEC for discussion I think, but it never made it to the agenda.

I would suggest that the problem with an association of elected officials is that it would represent a powerful group within the party and therefore a 'threat'.

ANGLO-STAFFS · 24-11-2007, 12:01 AM

COUNCILLORS AT DISTRICT LEVEL. (9)

ENGLAND.

Carrick DC.. Boslowick ward.. Barrie Elliott…… Elected 2007
Hartlepool UA.. St Hilda.. Stephen Allison.. Elected 2006
Kennet DC.. Netheravon.. Alan Wood.. Elected 2007
Newcastle u Lyme.. Knutton.. Derek Huckfield.. Elected 2007.
Newcastle u Lyme.. Silverdale.. Eileen Braithwaite.. Elected 2007.
Slough UA.. Chippenham Green.. Geoff Howard.. Defected from Con
Staffs Moorlands DC.. Leek north.. Steve Povey.. Elected 2007.
Sutton LBC.. Belmont.. David Pickles.. Defected from Con

NORTHERN IRELAND

Newry & Mourne.. The Mournes. Henry Reilly.. Defected from UUP

SOME TOWN/PARISH COUNCILLORS (25)

Cornwall....Falmouth..TC....Arwenack....03/05/2007...E....Merrett, Diana
Cornwall....Falmouth..TC....Boslowick....03/05/2007....E...Elliott, Barrie
Cornwall....Sancreed..PC....N/A...... 03/05/2007....E....Smith, Rose Vera
Devon....Tiverton..TC....Castle....03/05/2007....E....Guilderthorp, Kenneth
Devon.... Tiverton..TC....Westexe South....03/05/2007....E....Williams, Randall
Devon....Tiverton..TC....Cranmore....03/05/2007...Uncon....Partridge, Graham
Devon.... Tiverton..TC....Lowman....03/05/2007....Uncon....Jordan, John
Dorset.... East Stoke..PC....N/A....03/05/2007....E?....Barnes, John
Isle of Wight..Cowes..TC..Medina..03/05/2007..Uncon..Lyndon-Bell, Rose
Isle of Wight..Cowes..TC..Castle East..03/05/2007..Uncon..Birch, Paul
Oxfordshire..Eynsham..PC..N/A..03/05/2007..Uncon..Millar, Jonathan
Shropshire..Kynnersley PC..N/A..03/05/2007..Uncon..Seymour, Jill
Shropshire..Market Drayton TC..East.. 03/05/2007..E..Beecham, Alan
Shropshire..Market Drayton TC..East.. 03/05/2007..E..Glover, Steve
Staffordshire..Leek TC..Leek North..03/05/2007..E..Povey, Steve
Suffolk..Capel-St-Mary..PC..N/A..03/05/2007..Uncon..Streatfield, Chris
Suffolk..Beck Row etc..PC..N/A..03/05/2007..E..Chandler, David
Suffolk..Lakenheath..PC..Village..03/05/2007..E..Smith, Ian
Suffolk..Mildenhall..PC..Market..03/05/2007..Un..Hayes, George
Suffolk..Mildenhall..PC..Market..03/05/2007..Un..Hitt, Herbert
Suffolk..Newmarket..TC..St Mary's..03/05/2007..Un..Hudson, David
Wiltshire..Calne..TC..Lickhill..03/05/2007..E..Ireland, John
Wiltshire..Calne..TC..Prestley..03/05/2007..E..Baggs, Mercy
Wiltshire..Calne..TC..Prestley..03/05/2007..E..Bland, David
Wiltshire..Calne..TC..Marden..03/05/2007..E..Short, David

ANGLO-STAFFS · 24-11-2007, 12:05 AM

Just added the four councillors on Calne TC Wilts.
There were 5 councillors but one resigned a couple of weeks ago.

Independent UKIP · 24-11-2007, 12:38 AM

Today:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

UKIP doesn't even know who their councillors are.

Few weeks ago:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

UKIP seem to regard this as secret information

So, should we conclude your view is that UKIP considers it secret information that they do not know who their councillors are?

Anthony Butcher · 24-11-2007, 01:06 AM

Getting a bit pedantic aren't we? All I mean is that UKIP makes no attempt to record or reveal who their councillors are. I don't know if this is because it is a source of embarrassment, they really just don't care or, as I mentioned in my last post, perhaps the prospect of councillors becoming an organised group might represent a threat to the MEPs. One might even argue that elected councillors might be better placed to run the party than MEPs who spend a large amount of time abroad, or at least take an active role in its management.

ANGLO-STAFFS · 24-11-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Getting a bit pedantic aren't we? All I mean is that UKIP makes no attempt to record or reveal who their councillors are. I don't know if this is because it is a source of embarrassment, they really just don't care or, as I mentioned in my last post, perhaps the prospect of councillors becoming an organised group might represent a threat to the MEPs. One might even argue that elected councillors might be better placed to run the party than MEPs who spend a large amount of time abroad, or at least take an active role in its management.

Well said.
I have argued for some time that it is difficult to explain to people that UKIP is doing it's utmost to undermine the EU when many of the UKIP leadership are directly financed by the EU. If I had a quid for every time I have heard someone ask
"Do you expect me to believe that UKIP MEP's are going to bite the hand that feeds them"?
I was once told by an old lady.
"If I told you I moved into my residential home in order to close it down would you believe me? No, I know who butters my bread".

Independent UKIP · 25-11-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Getting a bit pedantic aren't we? All I mean is that UKIP makes no attempt to record or reveal who their councillors are. I don't know if this is because it is a source of embarrassment, they really just don't care or, as I mentioned in my last post, perhaps the prospect of councillors becoming an organised group might represent a threat to the MEPs. One might even argue that elected councillors might be better placed to run the party than MEPs who spend a large amount of time abroad, or at least take an active role in its management.

If pointing out that someone has made contradictory statements on a serious matter within just a few weeks is pedantic then I am pedantic. As you must know every single UKIP councillor at district plus level has been mentioned in articles on the UKIP website. So it is neither secret nor unknown. I acknowledge there are not many UKIP councillors and as a result I doubt it is worthwhile there being an organised group of UKIP councillors. They should concentrate on serving their residents to the best of their ability and helping to build up UKIP in the local area so that there might be more UKIP councillors in the future. When there is a big step-up in the number of UKIP councillors I will agree that there should be a formal grouping of them.

Anthony Butcher · 26-11-2007, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent UKIP

As you must know every single UKIP councillor at district plus level has been mentioned in articles on the UKIP website. So it is neither secret nor unknown.

Actually I didn't know that at all. Are these recent articles that have passed me by? If so, perhaps UKIP does take more of an interest in their councillors than I gave them credit for.

23-11-2007, 10:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
tamashi Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 523	The local government act identifies four possible labels for Councillors; these are Labour, Liberal Democrat, Conservative and Independent/Minor Party. All Parties other than the big three go in the "Independent/Minor Party" Group, often shortened to "Independent" If there are two or more individual Councils who want to band together they can request they be treated as a Group in their own right, "Ratepayer" or "Hospital Alliance" being two examples. These labels cannot appear on ballot papers as they are not registered political parties but they can be recognised as groups within an individual council. According to Steve Allison's Blogg there was a period on Hartlepool Council when Independents, Tories and UKIP sat together as an "Administrative Group" this gave then sufficient numbers to get a couple of Committee Chairmanships, which up till then had all been Labour. If the Lib-Dems had been willing to join the Admin Group then Labour would have lost control of Hartlepool Council. However, the Lib-Dems were not willing to do so and propped up the Labour Group enabling them to keep control as the biggest single party rather than the Majority Party Unfortunately there are many disadvantages in being a small group, the main one being in the allocation of Committee Seats which is done on a political balance basis. If a Council was made up of 30 Tories, 15 Labour, 15 Lib Dems and 10 Independents then a Committee of 10 would be allocated 5 Tories, 2 Labour, 2 Lib Dems and 1 Independent. If two of the independents were actually UKIP then they would be entitled to attend an "Independent Group Meeting" to agree who from the 10 possible would take the seat. This is where all the horse trading goes on. However if two "independents" split off to be the UKIP Group then the Seats would be still be allocated 5 Tories, 2 Labour, 2 Lib Dems and 1 Independent but the two UKIP Councillors would no longer be in the horse trade. To keep the Council Politically balanced would require every 30/70 Seats to be Tory, 15/70 each to be Lib Dem and Labour, 8/70 to be Independent and 2/70 to be UKIP/15. This means any committee with more than 10 seats would have an Independent by right but it would need 35 seats before UKIP got a place automatically. Every 35th seat would still need to be UKIP but these seats would allocated by the big groups on a "take it or leave it" basis. Before Independents started forming their own groups on Councils this is how all none big 3 Party seats were allocated. Only by playing the numbers Game can none lib/lab/con councillors hope to get seats on any committees with any influence. Last edited by tamashi; 23-11-2007 at 10:07 PM.

24-11-2007, 01:06 AM	#17 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,823 Party: None	Getting a bit pedantic aren't we? All I mean is that UKIP makes no attempt to record or reveal who their councillors are. I don't know if this is because it is a source of embarrassment, they really just don't care or, as I mentioned in my last post, perhaps the prospect of councillors becoming an organised group might represent a threat to the MEPs. One might even argue that elected councillors might be better placed to run the party than MEPs who spend a large amount of time abroad, or at least take an active role in its management. __________________ If you care about what's in your food and where it comes from, then get it labelled! Label My Food - http://www.labelmyfood.org.uk

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24-11-2007, 12:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
ANGLO-STAFFS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 608	COUNCILLORS AT DISTRICT LEVEL. (9) ENGLAND. Carrick DC.. Boslowick ward.. Barrie Elliott…… Elected 2007 Hartlepool UA.. St Hilda.. Stephen Allison.. Elected 2006 Kennet DC.. Netheravon.. Alan Wood.. Elected 2007 Newcastle u Lyme.. Knutton.. Derek Huckfield.. Elected 2007. Newcastle u Lyme.. Silverdale.. Eileen Braithwaite.. Elected 2007. Slough UA.. Chippenham Green.. Geoff Howard.. Defected from Con Staffs Moorlands DC.. Leek north.. Steve Povey.. Elected 2007. Sutton LBC.. Belmont.. David Pickles.. Defected from Con NORTHERN IRELAND Newry & Mourne.. The Mournes. Henry Reilly.. Defected from UUP SOME TOWN/PARISH COUNCILLORS (25) Cornwall....Falmouth..TC....Arwenack....03/05/2007...E....Merrett, Diana Cornwall....Falmouth..TC....Boslowick....03/05/2007....E...Elliott, Barrie Cornwall....Sancreed..PC....N/A...... 03/05/2007....E....Smith, Rose Vera Devon....Tiverton..TC....Castle....03/05/2007....E....Guilderthorp, Kenneth Devon.... Tiverton..TC....Westexe South....03/05/2007....E....Williams, Randall Devon....Tiverton..TC....Cranmore....03/05/2007...Uncon....Partridge, Graham Devon.... Tiverton..TC....Lowman....03/05/2007....Uncon....Jordan, John Dorset.... East Stoke..PC....N/A....03/05/2007....E?....Barnes, John Isle of Wight..Cowes..TC..Medina..03/05/2007..Uncon..Lyndon-Bell, Rose Isle of Wight..Cowes..TC..Castle East..03/05/2007..Uncon..Birch, Paul Oxfordshire..Eynsham..PC..N/A..03/05/2007..Uncon..Millar, Jonathan Shropshire..Kynnersley PC..N/A..03/05/2007..Uncon..Seymour, Jill Shropshire..Market Drayton TC..East.. 03/05/2007..E..Beecham, Alan Shropshire..Market Drayton TC..East.. 03/05/2007..E..Glover, Steve Staffordshire..Leek TC..Leek North..03/05/2007..E..Povey, Steve Suffolk..Capel-St-Mary..PC..N/A..03/05/2007..Uncon..Streatfield, Chris Suffolk..Beck Row etc..PC..N/A..03/05/2007..E..Chandler, David Suffolk..Lakenheath..PC..Village..03/05/2007..E..Smith, Ian Suffolk..Mildenhall..PC..Market..03/05/2007..Un..Hayes, George Suffolk..Mildenhall..PC..Market..03/05/2007..Un..Hitt, Herbert Suffolk..Newmarket..TC..St Mary's..03/05/2007..Un..Hudson, David Wiltshire..Calne..TC..Lickhill..03/05/2007..E..Ireland, John Wiltshire..Calne..TC..Prestley..03/05/2007..E..Baggs, Mercy Wiltshire..Calne..TC..Prestley..03/05/2007..E..Bland, David Wiltshire..Calne..TC..Marden..03/05/2007..E..Short, David

24-11-2007, 12:05 AM	#15 (permalink)
ANGLO-STAFFS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 608	Just added the four councillors on Calne TC Wilts. There were 5 councillors but one resigned a couple of weeks ago.