UKIP

doc_cruel · 06-12-2004, 09:59 PM

We all know where we stand in regards our feeling towards Europe, but am I the only person sick to the bone with the US's invention in our lives? - Just look at their array of miltery bases and spy stations all over the UK! it's rumoured every bit of internal net traffic is 'listened' too by them!

- Imagine if France or Germany installed ECHELON on our soil?

I'd like to see us being independent from all foreign states, especially those run by idiots who cant form sentences!

mkpdavies · 06-12-2004, 10:34 PM

I want us to have a stong relationship with the states, but I want the relationship to benefit both sides. The problem with this government is they are so desperate to be the USA's bestest friend, that they are afraid to say no. Blair has one eye on being president of the EU, and a strong relationship with the USA would be a plus point on his C.V.

Someone needs to tell Blair that sucking up is not being a friend. A real friend tells you when you have stepped over the line, and in the case of Bush, helping the bully lay the boot INTO phpbb_a victim will not only lose you respect across the world, but will not actualy provide any benefit with the bully itself.

Be careful with the sentiment though, the US has a lot of good people there, and we should be their friends with the strong historical links we have with them. Snearing at them like some of our European neighbors, does more damage than good.

doc_cruel · 06-12-2004, 10:47 PM

I'd too would love to see a good relationship with both the US & Europe; but Americay really do need to change their attitude towards us - I remember when they tariffed our steel and tried to block our farm produce even after we'd sent troops INTO phpbb_Afganistan for them!

I see our relationship as less friendship than master pet - how many British listening stations or army bases are there over the pond?
What possible benefit does letting the CIA spy on us give to you or I?

mkpdavies · 06-12-2004, 10:53 PM

The Falklands war might be an answer to that question. If it wasn't for Yanks helping us with satellite mapping and supplying us with sidewinder missles, the whole thing could have been a lot more painful for us. I agree with you though, Blair has let it go to far in one direction, he uses the same method of butt kissing that he expects from his toads. It is the way of New Labour, and I don't understand why anyone would vote for them anymore!

Anthony Butcher · 06-12-2004, 11:51 PM

This is one of the reasons the EU wants its own satellite network, so that if they ever have a war with the USA, the US won't just be able to turn off all of their GPS systems.

As for trade wars, that is just parr for the course - it will happen everywhere. The French banned our beef exports illegally as I recall, and I am sure that we have returned the favour. It happens, but it is eventually fixed. We can't really blame governments for looking after their own interests first; that is what they are elected to do.

I would like to see Britain setting the standards for everyone else to aspire to, rather than locking ourselves to one side or the other. We should have a model democracy, the best possible civil laws, the ideal balance between workers and business rights, a fantastic welfare system and so on.

doc_cruel · 07-12-2004, 02:36 AM

Yeah - the Gallelo project between us (ESA) and china if I recall.... although it is a form of GPS it's totally different to ECHELON which is primarily a listening station for tracking 'chatter' or other bits of interest.

Didnt the EU demand the US disclose the level of surveillance that they undertake on the UK and other European countries after some leaks about Boeing knowing a bit too much about Airbus contracts?

Falkland war was a bit before my time to be honest but they have been good Allies when we need them (although can someone tell me... has the debt owed to them for world war 2 been paid off yet?)

Anthony, you're spot on with your desire to see Britain setting the standards but I think we need to look at lessons learned and mistakes made by other countries to make sure we dont repeat them!

jp · 07-12-2004, 08:45 AM

I dont think the issue is whether a debt for WW2 has been paid off, but who you can really count on when the chips are down.

If there is a debt, go stand in Madingley cemetery and decide for yourself whether its been paid off

doc_cruel · 07-12-2004, 02:43 PM

too JP - but then it still doesnt give the US the right to run our lives. I want Britain free from all foreign meddlers both from East & West! We can start by leaving Europe and dismatling the US inteliigence bases.

jbalcock · 21-12-2004, 10:02 PM

I agree. Our best friends are Canada, Australia and New Zealand - fellow subjects of our Queen and the countries which always stood by our side. Let's have closer cooperation with them and leave both Europe and America behind.

C_steam · 21-12-2004, 10:18 PM

America is our primary ally, just as, typically, we have been allies to them in our own, albeit small, way.

There are no 'debts to pay' any way now. We are a sovereign nation and no problem to be equals I think, and no need to spoil a good working relationship.

Each request from any ally or partner should be viewed on its own merits and acted upon accordingly.

Having said that, if it hypothetically came down between a choice between being part of the USA or part of a federal Europe I know which one I'd choose. Pass the hamburgers.......

06-12-2004, 09:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	UKIP - independance from Europe and America! We all know where we stand in regards our feeling towards Europe, but am I the only person sick to the bone with the US's invention in our lives? - Just look at their array of miltery bases and spy stations all over the UK! it's rumoured every bit of internal net traffic is 'listened' too by them! - Imagine if France or Germany installed ECHELON on our soil? I'd like to see us being independent from all foreign states, especially those run by idiots who cant form sentences!

06-12-2004, 10:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,034 Party: Libertarian Party	I want us to have a stong relationship with the states, but I want the relationship to benefit both sides. The problem with this government is they are so desperate to be the USA's bestest friend, that they are afraid to say no. Blair has one eye on being president of the EU, and a strong relationship with the USA would be a plus point on his C.V. Someone needs to tell Blair that sucking up is not being a friend. A real friend tells you when you have stepped over the line, and in the case of Bush, helping the bully lay the boot INTO phpbb_a victim will not only lose you respect across the world, but will not actualy provide any benefit with the bully itself. Be careful with the sentiment though, the US has a lot of good people there, and we should be their friends with the strong historical links we have with them. Snearing at them like some of our European neighbors, does more damage than good. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

06-12-2004, 10:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,034 Party: Libertarian Party	The Falklands war might be an answer to that question. If it wasn't for Yanks helping us with satellite mapping and supplying us with sidewinder missles, the whole thing could have been a lot more painful for us. I agree with you though, Blair has let it go to far in one direction, he uses the same method of butt kissing that he expects from his toads. It is the way of New Labour, and I don't understand why anyone would vote for them anymore! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

06-12-2004, 10:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	I'd too would love to see a good relationship with both the US & Europe; but Americay really do need to change their attitude towards us - I remember when they tariffed our steel and tried to block our farm produce even after we'd sent troops INTO phpbb_Afganistan for them! I see our relationship as less friendship than master pet - how many British listening stations or army bases are there over the pond? What possible benefit does letting the CIA spy on us give to you or I?

06-12-2004, 11:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,185 Party: None	This is one of the reasons the EU wants its own satellite network, so that if they ever have a war with the USA, the US won't just be able to turn off all of their GPS systems. As for trade wars, that is just parr for the course - it will happen everywhere. The French banned our beef exports illegally as I recall, and I am sure that we have returned the favour. It happens, but it is eventually fixed. We can't really blame governments for looking after their own interests first; that is what they are elected to do. I would like to see Britain setting the standards for everyone else to aspire to, rather than locking ourselves to one side or the other. We should have a model democracy, the best possible civil laws, the ideal balance between workers and business rights, a fantastic welfare system and so on.

07-12-2004, 02:36 AM	#6 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	Yeah - the Gallelo project between us (ESA) and china if I recall.... although it is a form of GPS it's totally different to ECHELON which is primarily a listening station for tracking 'chatter' or other bits of interest. Didnt the EU demand the US disclose the level of surveillance that they undertake on the UK and other European countries after some leaks about Boeing knowing a bit too much about Airbus contracts? Falkland war was a bit before my time to be honest but they have been good Allies when we need them (although can someone tell me... has the debt owed to them for world war 2 been paid off yet?) Anthony, you're spot on with your desire to see Britain setting the standards but I think we need to look at lessons learned and mistakes made by other countries to make sure we dont repeat them!

07-12-2004, 08:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
jp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,001	I dont think the issue is whether a debt for WW2 has been paid off, but who you can really count on when the chips are down. If there is a debt, go stand in Madingley cemetery and decide for yourself whether its been paid off

07-12-2004, 02:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	too JP - but then it still doesnt give the US the right to run our lives. I want Britain free from all foreign meddlers both from East & West! We can start by leaving Europe and dismatling the US inteliigence bases.

21-12-2004, 10:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
jbalcock Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 11	I agree. Our best friends are Canada, Australia and New Zealand - fellow subjects of our Queen and the countries which always stood by our side. Let's have closer cooperation with them and leave both Europe and America behind.

21-12-2004, 10:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,786	America is our primary ally, just as, typically, we have been allies to them in our own, albeit small, way. There are no 'debts to pay' any way now. We are a sovereign nation and no problem to be equals I think, and no need to spoil a good working relationship. Each request from any ally or partner should be viewed on its own merits and acted upon accordingly. Having said that, if it hypothetically came down between a choice between being part of the USA or part of a federal Europe I know which one I'd choose. Pass the hamburgers.......