doc_cruel

ummm... it's a nice idea C_Steam but not true. Every year we still pay back on the $4.336 Billion borrowed for 'assistance' in world war 2. It will finally be paid back at the end of 2006.

I'm not that we shouldn't be grateful for the thousands of American lives given to protect us and Liberate France but the US was in many senses simply hired mercenaries.

Lets be honest.... American's always have in History done what's best for America. It isn't wrong for a country to consider only themselves but they have never been a traditional ally to Britain as we have to them... as say in Iraq where we shoulder both the cost and the loss of lives.

-Then International friendships are a fickle thing; but with the vast majority of our exports going to Europe it makes sense to keep them 'sweeter' once we leave the EU

doc_cruel

Sorry..... I got my figures wrong. (the American Billion and ours are for some reason differernt numbers) end figure isn't Billions but Trillons!!!!

by the end of 2006 we would have finally paid off the US for WWII - and paid $4.336 Trillion!!!

that's $4,336,000,000,000 - or $86,720 for every Brit.

Wonder how many Euro fighters we could've got with that!!!!

jbalcock

I still maintain that our fellow subjects of the Crown around the world are our first and formost allies and should come before America and Europe. We can still be friends with America and have a trading relationship with Europe, but aren't fellow subjects of our Queen a little bit closer?

kernow

Given a straight choice between "Cousin Jack" across the pond and our "partners" across the channel, give me Cousin Jack every time. In America's war of Independence, the French showed their true colours by supplying America with 90% of the gunpowder it used against the Brits'. In WW2, nearly as many Frenchmen backed the Germans as backed the Allies. Throughout History France and Britain have always been "deadly friends" and anyone who believes that will change with ever closer union, dream on! Unfortunetly mankind has not seen the last of the European Wars, the EU because of its forced existence will cause the next one!

felneymike

I am probably even more against the "Special relationship" with the US than i am against the EU, do we NEED to have "Close ties" to anyone?, we should sell stuff to the world, and buy stuff from the world, but beyond that, our land and our army is for our use!

kernow

Sorry to say you and I felneymike come from different planets. probably because we are from a different age group. I do agree we should sell to the World, but I will never knock the " Yanks" after walking around the war cemetry just outside Cambridge. When I was at school in the fifties our art teacher who had served in the Navy in WW2, told are class "You will hear various people run down American's, but remember without the Americans and their arms, Britain and it's allies would not have won the War". The anti American lot say we have only just paid off America for what we owed them over WW2. So What!, would you be happier speaking German?

Sarumano

More to the point, go see Omaha Cemetery in Normandy - and recall that about 80% of the US bodies were shipped back home to the States.

I agree with jbalcock; let's concentrate on brushing up our relations with the Commonwealth. Let's remember that THIS is the Union that Churchill supported; the English-speaking Union of UK, Oz, NZ, and half of Africa and India... while we stand on the sidelines and cheer on the European match between France and Germany
(That is, until they BOTH decide to invade us!)

doc_cruel

Kernow - you're right the US troops paid a heavy price in world war 2 and on a personal level we should never forget their loss nor that of any other Foreign troop who died trying to defend Britain from our then enemies. Even though I'm only 22 on the 11th of November I will make sure I wear my poppy with pride for all British, American, Indian, Canadian, Polish & all other people who died so we can enjoy the life we live now.

However, on a national level we need to look at the facts. Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa all acted with honour & declared war on Nazi Germany at the onset of hostilities - All these countries sent troops to Britain when we needed them most, when a Nazi invasion looked imminent.

But what was the US doing? Even as London was being bombed the American government approved the sale of goods to all sides of the conflict (making huge profits in the process)!

Infact the US even made an official public complaint in late 1939 (a month after London was bombed for the first time) that our naval blockade of Nazi Germany was an 'interference with the rights of neutral nations to trade'. They dropped their arms embargos... running their sales like a cash and carry.

It was only after pearl harbour and Hitler's alliance with Japan that brought America INTO phpbb_the war proper.... and it still wasn't as an ally - Every Brit is still paying for the bullets fired by Americans 60 years ago.

So please let's look at the facts. If it's anyone we should thank for stopping us speaking German it's certainly not America & should probably be the USSR!

I'd like to see Britain run by British people.... without America or any other foreign country spying on us, intercepting our telephone calls or reading our personal emails. What right do they have to do that? and shame on anyone who stands here trying to claim they love Britain but are pro the US treating us like they do! Form Steel Tariffs to Iraq, the lack of respect they show towards us is obvious to all with their eyes open.

I don't like the 'special' relationship we have.... the only thing special about our relationship with the US is we let them walk all over us all and do nothing about it! At least in Brussels we have a seat at the table.

Sarumano - just noticed your post too! Love 'em or hate them the Entente Cordiale is one of the longest & most served alliances in History. France has been an honest ally to us & nearly as good as we have been to her.

jb_alcock

We don't need the special relationship with America or membership of the EU. I wish people here would recognise that Britain has THREE choices, not only two. The third option is the one I would support - that is closer cooperation with the Commonwealth - the fellow subjects of our Queen. I would opt for this over both Europe or America any day.

jb_alcock

Sarumano - Union of UK, Oz, NZ, half of Africa and India - this is what I support - don't forget Canada as well.