Thread: Greatest Briton

Thomas Paine......?
How can you justify him being a Great Britain with him obviously living most of his adult life in America where he sided against Great Britain in the Revolutionary war.
He was basically an American citizen who later became the American Minister for France and was well known for being an Internationalist who had no affiliation with any country whatsoever.
If he was alive today Thomas Paine would have been a devout Europhile,and will go down in history as one of the biggest traitors this country has ever produced.

Unbelievable!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Euroscep

Thomas Paine......?
How can you justify him being a Great Britain with him obviously living most of his adult life in America where he sided against Great Britain in the Revolutionary war.
He was basically an American citizen who later became the American Minister for France and was well known for being an Internationalist who had no affiliation with any country whatsoever.
If he was alive today Thomas Paine would have been a devout Europhile,and will go down in history as one of the biggest traitors this country has ever produced.

Unbelievable!!!!!!!

Despite spending a lot of time "on the road", Paine WAS English by birth. That's a fact. Darwin spent a lot of time off the other side of the world looking under rocks etc, doesnt make him a Galapagosian.

He did well to side against Britain in the Revolutionary War - Paine believed, as I do, in freedom and self-determinism - in fact he's a major reason why anyone has any interest in freedom, reason and justice. Probably the most underrated philosopher of all time. Locke was cited by the founding fathers as a huge source of inspiration, but Paine was in there too.

As for being an internationalist, that's debateable. He was certainly more of an ideologue for liberty than a nationalist, but I despise nationalism anyway. It's just stupid, plain stupid.

As for your contention he would have been a Europhile, that's just supposition, and I disagree. My supposition would be that he would support the individual liberty of people to decide for themselves, not have £40m a day wasted on ******** like the CAP.

I champion Paine as a Great Briton not out of patriotism (which is mindless) but in literal terms. He was a Great Briton.

I'm interested by your use of the word traitor.

I don't want to derail this thread, so perhaps you could PM me with why you think Paine was a traitor.

A traitor to what? Hereditary monarchy - the oldest form of despotism and injustice in Europe?

EDIT: Actually, dont bother. I've just seen that you're a BNP supporter. I have no interest in communicating with a supporter of a mindless, far-left party.

Well if you refuse to debate points on this forum with members of a perfectly legal political party like the BNP who have many members on this forum,then it will probably be better for you to go else where.
I know that Thomas Paine was an advocate for free speech,and you have just contradicted yourself in not being willing to debate the point with a member of the BNP.
This is something that Thomas Paine would fully disagree with,even though he was a traitor to the British nation.
And I do not debate with forum members via PM's,as this is an open forum and all opinions should be made visible for other forum members to see,and for them to make their own mind up or contribute on the topic in question.
And to call Patriotism "mindless" is something that I cannot grasp as the majority of true Great Britons were most definitely Patriotic and people like Churchill,Nelson,Elizabeth I definitely come under this category.
That is why they are true Great Britons unlike Thomas Paine who was an American Internationalist who had no time for his country of birth whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Euroscep

Well if you refuse to debate points on this forum with members of a perfectly legal political party like the BNP who have many members on this forum,then it will probably be better for you to go else where.

Hilarious

You BNP are so predictable! You put the "we are a legal party" out there, as if its relevant. It's ok, I'm fully aware that you're legal. (Mind you, being a proscribed organisation doesnt mean anything these days as both LTTE and Hizb-ut-Tahrir freely go about their business without receiving the proper treatment that fascist arseholes deserve!)

As for trying to persuade me to go elsewhere, I could say the exact same thing to you, couldn't I? You want me to **** off because I don't want to debate politics with you. I want you to cease your collectivist nonsense and realise that europhilia and protectionism are both sides of the same Stalinist coin! You may be a eurosceptic, but not for moral reasons.

I know that Thomas Paine was an advocate for free speech,and you have just contradicted yourself in not being willing to debate the point with a member of the BNP.

Yes free speech indeed. Free as in, free to choose. After making it clear to you that your views are so repellent I don't want to pursue them further, I am CHOOSING to ignore you.

this is an open forum and all opinions should be made visible for other forum members to see,and for them to make their own mind up or contribute on the topic in question.

Hmm. Interesting. The BNP haven't always been so fond of transparency have they?

And to call Patriotism "mindless" is something that I cannot grasp

I'm not surprised. You support a far-left party. You have clearly turned large parts of your brain off.

as the majority of true Great Britons were most definitely Patriotic and people like Churchill,Nelson,Elizabeth I definitely come under this category.

You talk about these things as if they were undisputed facts.

Churchill is ridiculously overrated. Do you somehow think he was AT ALL instrumental in World War II? He let Stalin and Roosevelt manipulate him so easily at Casablanca, Yalta, etc

Nelson was a great military leader, fair enough, but championing a disgusting effigy of fascism like Liz One as your hero is simply laughable. Remember that not everyone is in bed with fascists and despots like you are!

That is why they are true Great Britons unlike Thomas Paine who was an American Internationalist who had no time for his country of birth whatsoever.

Yes, I can see that my points are beyond your grasp.

Originally Posted by Mister Penalty

Churchill was as ruthless as was required for the country to survive. He is still way behind Hitler, Stalin and co. I don't think anyone of todays mob is even fit to walk in the shadow of his tomb. They stopped providing backbones at public schools after 1945.

Mister Penalty

Well said!

Churchill had a job to do and he did it well. He's got my vote and most of the countries vote.

Originally Posted by g hall

No contest, Alfred the Great, the only King of England to be so named

Seconded.

Why wasn't he listed in the original poll?