Stip Local Government Bandits of their power.

Little Englander (sour) · 11-10-2008, 09:34 PM

I'm of the opnion that central government and local government have stripped themselves of all responsibilities, central government through quangos and the EU, local councils through professional "council officers" and the Local Government Association.

An example would be the planning application procedure where the elected members of a council are minded to refuse permission, for what ever reasons, the "planning officers" then tell them that the application does not break central government planning law and that refusal could result in a "government appointed but independent inspector" overturning that decision and the council being liable to the developer for compensation, this could be as much as £50,000. This has proved to be true, and I speak from personal experienmce as a member of the Parish Council Planning Committee.

They have us by the bollux.

British-Conservatism · 11-10-2008, 09:56 PM

More people now want to abolish local government ‘All local government should be abolished’ | The Spectator

British-Conservatism · 11-10-2008, 10:00 PM

http://www.igshistoryonline.co.uk/Po...ion%202.0).ppt

Aardvark · 11-10-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

More people now want to abolish local government ‘All local government should be abolished’ | The Spectator

Not quite. Apart from the fact that the Spectator is a humorous magazine, the article is short on facts and long on hyperbole. Rod Liddle is wrong about the costing of waste collection, he is wrong about the percentage of councils who do not collect some sort of waste every week, he has misinterpreted the Wensleydale situation - the people who are being asked to deliver their own waste to the roadside live at the end of country tracks where refuse vehicles cannot go or, if they can go, would take an inordinate amount of the working day to collect a small amount of refuse (we had a similar problem with remote farms in West Oxon). The article is as much use as an authority on the subject as mkpd citing Penn and Teller as an authority on recycling. Rod Liddle is wrong about authorities getting more powers. Powers are defined in statutes and cannot be extended or increased by local councils as they could be sued for misfeasance in public office or punished for acting ultra vires. Liddle cites one abuse of power that was highlighted in national papers and will not be repeated.

BC, You have not gone through all the powers and duties and costed them or provided an exact calculation of how much can be saved by your reforms. If you have everything centralised then where will job interviews be held for teachers if there is no local structure in place? If there is a local structure who will administer and fund it? Who centrally will decide which schools will get which money and who will fund that bureaucracy as there is nobody in place at present? If social services has been centralised as you suggest then how will you manage the local offices?

The fact that you have been a candidate is not the same as having been elected and having done the job. I was unpaid as a parish councillor and I resigned the Tory whip as a district councillor in protest about an unreasonable increase in funding of pay and allowances for councillors:

Oxford Mail - Council pay bill about to quadruple

I don't need people making cheap shots about money and my views on such. I've put my head above the parapet on the subject and stand by my record.

To suggest, as some on this forum do, that all local councillors are in some way corrupt or money grabbing is to do a great disservice to so many people who have done sterling work with little thought of reward. The current system of 'paid' councillors is a Labour invention which many of us opposed. Our authority preferred the amateur system (£22 per day allowances - much less than the minimum wage) and committee decisions as opposed to cabinet and scrutiny.

The majority of people who work in local authorities are not jobsworths, although I have met a few who are, but dedicated people who are very involved in running their communities. Some bigger district and metropolitan authorities do seem to have a lot of PC jobs that I would happily disestablish, but the majority of jobs are based on statutory duties that have to be fulfilled. A reduction in statutory duties and a return to the committee system would yield substantial savings with very little effort. Centralising everything and removing local democratic accountability might have been good for Moseley and his ilk, but it is not the best way to run a country.

Aardvark · 11-10-2008, 11:12 PM

It has been agreed by all members of the Council of Europe, which is all European countries apart from Belarus, that local taxation shall form part of the revenue of local govenment. To that extent there have been substantial changes across Europe, east and west, with regards to funding local authorities. In some areas the UK is lagging behind.

Council of Europe - ETS no. 122 - European Charter of Local Self-Government

BC, Your suggestions fly in the face of our international treaty obligations to provide local governments and taxation. Only Andorra, Monaco and San Marino have not ratified the document, but they are too small to have local government. Amazingly Liechtenstein appears to have committed itelf to a tier of local govenment.

BonnieDundee · 12-10-2008, 01:41 AM

The problem with local gov't is that it is undemocratic and run by quangos. A major reason for this is that centralisation has trivialised it and people just don't care too much about it to take an interest, more centralisation is unlikely to help.

A better idea would be to democratise local gov't.

BonnieDundee · 12-10-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

More people now want to abolish local government ‘All local government should be abolished’ | The Spectator

Others want to democratise it and increase its powers.

Direct Democracy UK

Welcome to the online home of Direct Democracy, a movement of MPs, MEPs, activists and candidates committed to making localism the core of the Conservative Party's platform.

When we launched our book, Direct Democracy - Agenda for a New Model Party, in 2005, the response was immediate - and overwhelmingly positive. Its main themes are listed at the bottom of this page, underneath the ten principles which guide our policies.

Now, three years on, Douglas Carswell and Daniel Hannan bring you The Plan: Twelve Months to Renew Britain. The Plan is a radical new blueprint to revive the U.K.'s ailing democracy through a localist revolution by:
* Cleaning up Westminster
* Devolving power to the lowest practicable level
* Making public services work for the people who use them
* Bringing foreign and domestic policy back in line with public opinion
* Replacing the quango state with genuine democracy
* Refreshing our political system through localism and direct democracy

We have also published The Localist Papers, a set of six policy studies, serialised in The Daily Telegraph, setting out concrete ways to solve Britain's problems.

Catch up with the series, and the debate it inspired, at the Telegraph's Think Local site.

You can also visit our News pages for the latest on politics and localism from around the world, while we also have an archive of comment pieces by a range of authors on our Policy page.

British-Conservatism · 12-10-2008, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardvark

It has been agreed by all members of the Council of Europe, which is all European countries apart from Belarus, that local taxation shall form part of the revenue of local govenment. To that extent there have been substantial changes across Europe, east and west, with regards to funding local authorities. In some areas the UK is lagging behind.

Council of Europe - ETS no. 122 - European Charter of Local Self-Government

BC, Your suggestions fly in the face of our international treaty obligations to provide local governments and taxation. Only Andorra, Monaco and San Marino have not ratified the document, but they are too small to have local government. Amazingly Liechtenstein appears to have committed itelf to a tier of local govenment.

They are making a big mistake going down this route and will regret it.
The article is much like what I was looking for but in less depth.

British-Conservatism · 12-10-2008, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieDundee

Others want to democratise it and increase its powers.

Direct Democracy UK

Welcome to the online home of Direct Democracy, a movement of MPs, MEPs, activists and candidates committed to making localism the core of the Conservative Party's platform.

When we launched our book, Direct Democracy - Agenda for a New Model Party, in 2005, the response was immediate - and overwhelmingly positive. Its main themes are listed at the bottom of this page, underneath the ten principles which guide our policies.

Now, three years on, Douglas Carswell and Daniel Hannan bring you The Plan: Twelve Months to Renew Britain. The Plan is a radical new blueprint to revive the U.K.'s ailing democracy through a localist revolution by:
* Cleaning up Westminster
* Devolving power to the lowest practicable level
* Making public services work for the people who use them
* Bringing foreign and domestic policy back in line with public opinion
* Replacing the quango state with genuine democracy
* Refreshing our political system through localism and direct democracy

We have also published The Localist Papers, a set of six policy studies, serialised in The Daily Telegraph, setting out concrete ways to solve Britain's problems.

Catch up with the series, and the debate it inspired, at the Telegraph's Think Local site.

You can also visit our News pages for the latest on politics and localism from around the world, while we also have an archive of comment pieces by a range of authors on our Policy page.

Direct Democracy would be far better for making local choices than councils.

BonnieDundee · 12-10-2008, 05:41 AM

I don't know, local gov't could be made more participatory and directly democratic now and it would probably help matters, particularly if it was granted more powers and functions and became more important to the local people. But obviously it would have to be mroe participatory and democratic otherwise that would leave the quangos with even more power.

But I think a significant change in that direction would have to be accompanied by a change in the way society thinks about these things.

What is the BNP's position on these issues?

11-10-2008, 09:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
Little Englander (sour) Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Portsmouth Posts: 949 Party: English Democrats	I'm of the opnion that central government and local government have stripped themselves of all responsibilities, central government through quangos and the EU, local councils through professional "council officers" and the Local Government Association. An example would be the planning application procedure where the elected members of a council are minded to refuse permission, for what ever reasons, the "planning officers" then tell them that the application does not break central government planning law and that refusal could result in a "government appointed but independent inspector" overturning that decision and the council being liable to the developer for compensation, this could be as much as £50,000. This has proved to be true, and I speak from personal experienmce as a member of the Parish Council Planning Committee. They have us by the bollux. __________________ Little Englander (bigoted)

11-10-2008, 09:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
British-Conservatism Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,313	More people now want to abolish local government ‘All local government should be abolished’ \| The Spectator __________________ http://conservativedemocraticalliance.blogspot.com/

11-10-2008, 10:00 PM	#23 (permalink)
British-Conservatism Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,313	http://www.igshistoryonline.co.uk/Po...ion%202.0).ppt __________________ http://conservativedemocraticalliance.blogspot.com/

11-10-2008, 11:12 PM	#25 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,973	It has been agreed by all members of the Council of Europe, which is all European countries apart from Belarus, that local taxation shall form part of the revenue of local govenment. To that extent there have been substantial changes across Europe, east and west, with regards to funding local authorities. In some areas the UK is lagging behind. Council of Europe - ETS no. 122 - European Charter of Local Self-Government BC, Your suggestions fly in the face of our international treaty obligations to provide local governments and taxation. Only Andorra, Monaco and San Marino have not ratified the document, but they are too small to have local government. Amazingly Liechtenstein appears to have committed itelf to a tier of local govenment. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008 Last edited by Aardvark; 11-10-2008 at 11:16 PM.

12-10-2008, 01:41 AM	#26 (permalink)
BonnieDundee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Between Mallaig and Cornwall. Posts: 2,809	The problem with local gov't is that it is undemocratic and run by quangos. A major reason for this is that centralisation has trivialised it and people just don't care too much about it to take an interest, more centralisation is unlikely to help. A better idea would be to democratise local gov't. __________________ "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state." -Bruce Schneier How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and pss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.* Edward Abbey Leopold Kohr.

12-10-2008, 05:41 AM	#30 (permalink)
BonnieDundee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Between Mallaig and Cornwall. Posts: 2,809	I don't know, local gov't could be made more participatory and directly democratic now and it would probably help matters, particularly if it was granted more powers and functions and became more important to the local people. But obviously it would have to be mroe participatory and democratic otherwise that would leave the quangos with even more power. But I think a significant change in that direction would have to be accompanied by a change in the way society thinks about these things. What is the BNP's position on these issues? __________________ "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state." -Bruce Schneier How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and pss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.* Edward Abbey Leopold Kohr.

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