Idea's on Taxation (one for the Libertarians)

Wowbanger TIP · 09-10-2008, 08:55 PM

My first instinct is to agree with John, sales tax. However if my gaff continues to fall in value at the rate it is I might reconsider. 5% of sod all is sod all.

BonnieDundee · 10-10-2008, 12:45 AM

What about the Georgist singe tax? It is the best tax, it falls only on that part of land value which is generated by nature and society. For some reason it is often forgotten.

Geolibertarian FAQ
http://geolib.pair.com/essays/sulliv.../royallib.html
What Is Geolibertarianism?

It is a a tax that is already levied, the creation of society however goes to private landlords today.

Just introduce the LVT and lower or remove other taxes.

British-Conservatism · 10-10-2008, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieDundee

What about the Georgist singe tax? It is the best tax, it falls only on that part of land value which is generated by nature and society. For some reason it is often forgotten.

Geolibertarian FAQ
http://geolib.pair.com/essays/sulliv.../royallib.html
What Is Geolibertarianism?

It is a a tax that is already levied, the creation of society however goes to private landlords today.

Just introduce the LVT and lower or remove other taxes.

Old Liberal idea to destroy the aristocracy and break peoples bond to the land.
Has many of the same problems as a property tax but culturally it is more destructive.

BonnieDundee · 10-10-2008, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Old Liberal idea to destroy the aristocracy and break peoples bond to the land.
Has many of the same problems as a property tax but culturally it is more destructive.

Ah the indepth analysis we've come to expect from you BC.

It actually increases the bond to the land because it lessens speculation and decreases the price of land and rent. It is a distributive method hence the support of Catholic distributionists like John Medaille. It will allow more people to own more productive property and their own homes and land more easily.

It doesn't have most of the problems of property taxes as far as I can see. Care to explain how it does?

Chip · 10-10-2008, 08:12 AM

Property tax is a nonsense because it can not take account of ability to pay without huge back office costs to administer it. All taxation should in my opinion be based on the ability to pay through income tax.

BonnieDundee · 10-10-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip

Property tax is a nonsense because it can not take account of ability to pay without huge back office costs to administer it. All taxation should in my opinion be based on the ability to pay through income tax.

The LVT is not a property tax per se and it is a tax on income to property not property. I wish people would bother reading links.

angelman · 10-10-2008, 09:49 AM

I am against property tax - mainly cos I would be worse off, and as it would be introduced on a decision that I took some years ago I would be snookered.

On the list (C4 - on the link), the two that stand out for me, is corporation tax and fuel duties. How can corporation tax be so low? I realise that the big companies pay virtually nothing which as a small business ****** me off intensely. I realise that they need breaks to keep them from relocating to such places as Ireland, but surely they could contribute a little more.

As for fuel duties and petroleum revenue tax, this come to £26.6bn which is about the same as the combined total for CGT, IT, IPT, HMCR Duty, all Duty on all alcohol, Betting tax and Air Passenger duty. That is why I think we should put this nice little regressive tax up!

BonnieDundee · 10-10-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

Firstly, like you, I don't actually support any property taxes (that includes income tax, since your income is your property, although I would rather get rid of taxes like council tax first since they are far more evil because they are rarely based upon ability to pay). I find myself agreeing with John Conner and his sales tax on this one.
.

What about the LVT? It is the only tax that is not on property at all being on socially created site rent and naturally created ground rent.

John Connor · 10-10-2008, 11:03 AM

Dundee - nobody here likes your LVT idea. So why not give up banging on and on about it.

BonnieDundee · 10-10-2008, 11:07 AM

So John don't take orders.

They're already paying it anyway.

People here obviously don't know what it is though, the replies indicate that. It is obviously superior to the sales, income, property and capital taxes as it doesn't tax anyone on what they actually produce. It is definitely the most libertarian of taxes which is why it or similar ideas or sentiments have had support from everyone from David Nolan through Milton Friedman to Adam Smith or Thomas Paine.

09-10-2008, 08:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
Wowbanger TIP Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,634	My first instinct is to agree with John, sales tax. However if my gaff continues to fall in value at the rate it is I might reconsider. 5% of sod all is sod all. __________________ The only ones left with any confidence at all are the New Dumb. It is the beginning of the end of our world as we knew it. Doom is the operative ethic. H S Thompson Kingdom of Fear: Loathsome Secrets of a Star-crossed Child in the Final Days of the American Century (2004)

10-10-2008, 12:45 AM	#12 (permalink)
BonnieDundee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Between Mallaig and Cornwall. Posts: 2,809	What about the Georgist singe tax? It is the best tax, it falls only on that part of land value which is generated by nature and society. For some reason it is often forgotten. Geolibertarian FAQ http://geolib.pair.com/essays/sulliv.../royallib.html What Is Geolibertarianism? It is a a tax that is already levied, the creation of society however goes to private landlords today. Just introduce the LVT and lower or remove other taxes. __________________ "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state." -Bruce Schneier How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and pss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.* Edward Abbey Leopold Kohr. Last edited by BonnieDundee; 10-10-2008 at 12:47 AM.

10-10-2008, 11:03 AM	#19 (permalink)
John Connor Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hard Working Families' Socialist Republic of Untied Kingdomistan Posts: 1,019 Party: None	Dundee - nobody here likes your LVT idea. So why not give up banging on and on about it. __________________ There are three types of people in this world: Libertarians, fascists and those who haven't been paying attention. Users on ignore list: Akria, Besoeker, Clippo, david H, Ian C.

10-10-2008, 11:07 AM	#20 (permalink)
BonnieDundee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Between Mallaig and Cornwall. Posts: 2,809	So John don't take orders. They're already paying it anyway. People here obviously don't know what it is though, the replies indicate that. It is obviously superior to the sales, income, property and capital taxes as it doesn't tax anyone on what they actually produce. It is definitely the most libertarian of taxes which is why it or similar ideas or sentiments have had support from everyone from David Nolan through Milton Friedman to Adam Smith or Thomas Paine. __________________ "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state." -Bruce Schneier How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and pss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.* Edward Abbey Leopold Kohr. Last edited by BonnieDundee; 10-10-2008 at 11:12 AM.

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10-10-2008, 08:12 AM	#15 (permalink)
Chip Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North West UK Posts: 597	Property tax is a nonsense because it can not take account of ability to pay without huge back office costs to administer it. All taxation should in my opinion be based on the ability to pay through income tax.

10-10-2008, 09:49 AM	#17 (permalink)
angelman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 543	I am against property tax - mainly cos I would be worse off, and as it would be introduced on a decision that I took some years ago I would be snookered. On the list (C4 - on the link), the two that stand out for me, is corporation tax and fuel duties. How can corporation tax be so low? I realise that the big companies pay virtually nothing which as a small business ****** me off intensely. I realise that they need breaks to keep them from relocating to such places as Ireland, but surely they could contribute a little more. As for fuel duties and petroleum revenue tax, this come to £26.6bn which is about the same as the combined total for CGT, IT, IPT, HMCR Duty, all Duty on all alcohol, Betting tax and Air Passenger duty. That is why I think we should put this nice little regressive tax up!