David Cameron - a Thatcherite and opponent of populism

British-Conservatism · 09-10-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissident Congress

It just goes to show how a party has sold out on its principles and adopted the policies of a rival party - namely the 19th century Liberals.

Thatcherite economics is just a new name for Manchester Liberalism.

And now the system has failed.

British-Conservatism · 09-10-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Englander (sour)

Yesterday at PMQs and later the statement by Darling, I thought that Cameron and Osborne were made to look like rank amateurs, they were wrong footed at every turn, the first hit was the .5% interest rate cut slipped in at the beginning by Brown, from there on the Tories looked like rabbits caught in the headlights of an on-coming juggernaut.

Who the FF do we vote for now?

That's what happens when you possition yourself as a Leftist party and not come up with policies of your own.
Always on the defensive and dancing to the enemys tune.

Dissident Congress · 09-10-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Englander (sour)

Yesterday at PMQs and later the statement by Darling, I thought that Cameron and Osborne were made to look like rank amateurs, they were wrong footed at every turn, the first hit was the .5% interest rate cut slipped in at the beginning by Brown, from there on the Tories looked like rabbits caught in the headlights of an on-coming juggernaut.

Formulating economic policies is not something the Tories consider to be a high priority skill for their members, which is why so few Tories can do it. Instead, they let their pals in the City and the bosses of multinational companies pull the strings in order to satisfy their own personal (and very greedy) desires and wants.

Smidgey · 09-10-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

Libertarians defending this mess by saying "it wasnt a real free market" are begining to sound very like the Socialists who say "the Soviet Union wasnt a real Socialist state".

But it isn't...

I like how, after libertarians spend the last half century arguing against the current system, you automatically think they suddenly believe in it when it fails.

As much as I disagree with them, the same goes for the socialists. This is a very poor argument and a logical fallacy.

British-Conservatism · 09-10-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

But it isn't...

I like how, after libertarians spend the last half century arguing against the current system, you automatically think they suddenly believe in it when it fails.

As much as I disagree with them, the same goes for the socialists. This is a very poor argument and a logical fallacy.

The Liberal Economic system has now failed it's that simple.

Smidgey · 09-10-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

The Liberal Economic system has now failed it's that simple.

I'm glad you're here to point these things out to me.

What does this have to do with the almost all of libertarians who have argued against this system?

British-Conservatism · 09-10-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

I'm glad you're here to point these things out to me.

What does this have to do with the almost all of libertarians who have argued against this system?

In what way have they argued against this system other than with less regulation?

Gregory Lauder-Frost · 09-10-2008, 02:01 PM

Without reference to the political past and the various theories it is impossible to plan for a future.

Smidgey · 09-10-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

In what way have they argued against this system other than with less regulation?

Lack of central banking and returning to voluntary money or some sort of metal standard (depending on which one you accept). Both of which are relevant to this particular crisis, which is a monetary crisis (why it is called the credit crunch, or credit crisis as it may now be known). The central banks have a very large role to play in what has happened, by regulating the money supply. Especially with the increase in interest rates in the early 2000's allowing for easy money (one of many sufficient causes).

Another example relevant to this crisis, as you rightly state, would be less regulation. I would direct you to the Basel II thread for a perfect example of why regulation of this sector does currently exist (it is certainly not laissez faire as the socialists and leftists are currently stating) and why it didn't work, but did the exact opposite of what it was meant to do. I suppose one could cry that it was bad regulation and that they would somehow be able to create good regulation - but as you said above, that seems to run in the same line as the socialists who claim that their form of socialism would work. Without wanting to make the same logical fallacy as you, I am happy to admit that there are (were?) two solutions to this crisis - one with 'better' regulation and one with less regulation. Knowing the nature of government with its ability to be manipulative and use legislation for its own benefit (government is unlikely to be benign except in the minds of socialist academics), I would prefer the latter. However, in a compeltely rational world that ignores human nature and works as perfectly as everyone would wish it to in their minds, then the former would certainly work. We, however, do not live in such a world where humans are infallible and where reason can trump human nature and human society.

david H · 09-10-2008, 02:14 PM

What did Kant say about it?

09-10-2008, 02:14 PM	#20 (permalink)
david H Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,881	What did Kant say about it? __________________ "You think you are combatting prejudice but you are at war with nature". Edmund Burke. http://www.buchanan.org/pa-98-1127.html

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09-10-2008, 02:01 PM	#18 (permalink)
Gregory Lauder-Frost Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: U.K. Posts: 671 Party: UKIP	Without reference to the political past and the various theories it is impossible to plan for a future.